We were asked once "Why are you (couples) so harsh to single guys?"
At a local Meet-N-greet. We have since changed a LOT of our wording in many places on this site and our postings based on his kind feedback.
- Almost all of it is from having been thru many less than enjoyable of swinging 1st contact situations (details below) in 6+ years. The results of which compelled us to change our rules
and how we communicate MANY
times. All of the changes were to try and minimize repeating any of the below experiences. We are a couple looking for couples only
meetings and state that up front many
times, we expected
these people to observe that requirement and respect it. We came into swinging after 9+ years of cybersex webcam chat rooms, where we met in 1998. So, we do have a solid background of how most encounters with single guys do go down when the potential of sex with a woman is involved.
We have nothing against single guys per se but have found that many will say they are 'into' swinging seem only to want to improve their chances of having sex with a woman. Many seem to be not interested in becoming a "part of the lifestyle" (the social scene) to the same level that couples do. Many new single guys will throw that phrase around in hopes it will improve their chances of getting to the next step. It does sometimes, for a while
. The test of "walking the walk" and "talking the talk" with experienced and observing swingers then comes. These particular single guys stand out like a broken marble in a bag full of good ones. You can't see them at first from afar, but on closer inspection there is no doubt of them being the "odd one" in the bag. Unfortunately for us and others this has been after
their being involved in social/swing play a few times. Many times these guys will 'be good' and will follow all of the couple's rules (for a while). Until the one time that they get highly excited. Then they try to 'take' what their lust wants, even if the couple's stated rules prevent it. We've personally observed a roaming married guy, his wife was nowhere nearby attempt uninvited intercourse. Without asking her he put on a condom and tried to enter her from behind. The woman had her back to him, she was busy giving her own husband oral sex. He ran away once she confronted him, not even apologizing!
single guys, it's just they are not
our choice of play partners. We even have created a page of tips for the single guys to get into the swinging
We like Meet-N-Greets before swing parties as they allow us to see the actual couples to singles ratio before getting naked. Not all M-N-G's actually result in couples meeting both partners of other couples though! If it doesn't work out we have always try to have a "Plan B" for ourselves. If the M-N-G fails our expectations we continue on alone, without any of these new folks. That way the evening isn't a total washout.
We are in a lot (over 20) of Yahoo! swinging oriented groups. Most are not exclusively couples oriented and even the ones that are vary in how they independently verify a couple's authenticity, mainly because Yahoo! or AOL don't. We agree that Yahoo! and AOL DO have built-in age barriers for adult level screening. However, we do feel that their age screening effectiveness is highly questionable. Neither acknowledge explicitly that a single ID may be representative of a couple too.
Basically we end up having to word our posting to the groups VERY carefully ALL
the time. Many of the single guys in these Y! groups have to be told, in each and every one of our posts that we're not
looking for them (with our signature). Even when we're posting about something else or responding to another's post, i.e. we had NOT posted "Couple looking for single male" or similar. You see, before we started doing this we used to get a HUGE amount of unwanted responses per post. If we made multiple posts it then multiplied the effect! The night of a posting from us we would get MANY unwanted responses, 18-25 IM's and a lot of e-mails, many with cock pictures attached (very few to no facial pics). The next day we would get 10-20 unwanted IM's and several unwanted e-mails. All the way out to a week later we were still getting a few unwanted IM's and e-mails. Almost all were rude, assumptive and trying to convince us to meet them alone for sex (3-some). Many will rudely insist that we turn our web cam on.
So, we added a signature that we thought they would understand and changed our profile. One would think they would understand a short phrase "No single males", but most didn't. We added it several places in our profile and toughened the wording - a moderate reduction. We added "No single males" to our profile's picture - a bigger reduction. Then, with still no great relief another tweak of the e-mail signature - another slight reduction. Even after that (We do not play alone with solo single guys, couples only
) we STILL get IM's from guys pleading with us to make an exception just for them! This type of behaviour 'off the net' (in public) would never be tolerated! If you said "Hey, you wife's tits make me hot, I wanna blow my load all over them!" in a bar or at the library - how soon after that would one be verbally disciplined or
worse? In one two week period Hotdi received 51 unsolicited IM's
from single/cheating males. Almost all
started out not greeting her by even saying hello, instead the dove right in (like the one above) with the sexual propositions. Here is a response
to questions she frequently she gets in those chat sessions. We know of several women, after enduring similar IM abuse that 'gave up' on being totally open and put themselves 'invisible' in Yahoo! IM. Still not convinced? Read on!
These sneak up on us. In the end these are the most annoying '1st contacts' we get. We get asked to add the 'couple' to our IM after chat gets rolling. Then the e-mails start flowing back and forth. All seems good so far. This sometimes goes on for weeks with no 'date' set for the face-2-face meeting! One 'couple' actually sent us a second '1st contact' message. This was while we were in the middle of the original e-mail flowing back and forth, LOL. The exact 'time waste' details beyond this vary, but the common theme is not meeting. Some do seem very agreeable to meet initially, almost too agreeable, but keep postponing the face-2-face meeting. Perhaps there is a reluctant spouse in the background that hasn't been fully 'won over' by the horny hubby? Many of these folks want to webcam together privately at first. That's fine with us as we do that any night we're home, we don't need another couple in order to begin, we met on webcam! Then we hear the excuses about the wife or girlfriend not being available and will we webcam with him alone. Most times this results in him giving us a johnson polishing demonstration. The M here is NOT homophobic, so it's not a big issue. But the M here already has a johnson and knows how to polish it! This doesn't do much for Hotdi either, her being bi. Some ask to exchange sexy pictures. Better quality ones are right here on this website, so we wonder 'why?' they even ask this.
Hello, anyone home?
Ever spend a significant amount of time writing a reply to someone's play request only to have no response AT ALL? Us too! Maybe it's us being old fashioned in feeling a short and polite "thanks, but no thanks" response is due. Why do people do this? Someone recently posted a comment that really jumped out at us: "Come on people are you swingers or just pretending to be?????" Persons replying should keep in mind if you don't meet all of the poster's stated requirements expecting a reply drops to 'a chance' at best. Too many hopeful people reply to a posting that they don't meet all the requirements of. The poster then has their mailboxes 'filled' by these type of replies, sometimes to the point of blocking new e-mails from coming in. It can and does make them angry. Many people just delete ALL of those not meeting their requirement without a response. You may feel you are a good match, but in the end it's THEIR choice, not yours. The SLS website has a "thanks, but no thanks" button available when reading mail. It doesn't get used much either. This happens to everyone we've met, this isn't only us. Think about it next time you post a play request and the replies start coming in, OK?
The first time we went to the Red Barn Adult Book Store we stayed a little less than 2 hours. Almost all of the guys around us were very polite to us both. One guy was being a little to eager in his over the shoulder viewing for my wife's liking, he was so close that she kept feeling his breathing on her shoulder. We were having a LOT of fun watching others watch us (a very BIG turn on for us) as I played with my wife's breasts thru her partially open dress. I was also rubbing her pussy, albeit thru panties. Another guy offered the advice that 'most couples go up to the front row as there is room to stretch out'. My wife resumed the BJ she had started before. The breathy guy still made her feel uneasy, so we didn't plan to stay much beyond when I came. We knew beforehand that there is always one hormonaly driven guy who 'pushes the envelope' for the scene. We're not sure if we will continue to visit ABS's based on other couples' experiences being very similar with the swarmers (A group of overly excited males that can't wait their turn and swarm the couple, many times trampling on other guys in the process! Syn: selfish, inconsiderate, impatient, hormonal, dick driven no brainer) and trolls. We have, after a long discussion decided to no longer visit ABS' for play times.
Face-2-Face couples meetings - that were less than honest
Guys faking being a couple - in general
The basic gist is a horny single guy hopes to fool a couple into: getting on a webcam naked, sending naked pictures or agree to meet as two couples for swinging play. Invariably this "couple" ends up being just him with the wife or girlfriend having had some "issue" about the couples meeting. He then goes into high gear with basically a pleading to play anyway, stating to us our "couples only" rule is unfair. Some throw in how great a lover they are, how great looking they are or how big their dick is
(larger size is not more or less appealing to us). With hotdi being bi and Hoople being a breast man, a large sized dick is NOT
a bargaining point that will make it happen for them as we are soft swing, i.e. no intercourse. Them insisting on pressing their point only proves their less than full understanding of our rules and requirements!
Fuck buddies are anyone who has one partner they live with and another that they play with. This couple responded to our ad on a swing club web site saying they were a couple. Something seemed a bit odd in that they could only meet on Friday nights but we agreed as they said they lived close. We met them at a restaurant and had drinks and then dinner. It got more odd when we realized they had never eaten together and knew nothing of what the other ate! We wanted to visit their swing club as their guests, so we stuck it out. We ended up joining the swing club later on.
Still married - to someone else
We met a "couple" for drinks and dinner. They seemed physically fine and socially for us so we ordered dinner and we kept chatting. After a time though we found out she was his "date". OK, so they're fuck buddies and we kept eating. Then after some time later he mentions that he's still married to his first wife and he hasn't finished the filing of his divorce. Wonder what else he's not so honest about to those around him??? (Herpes or HIV negative)
How we addressed the faking
Come the time of the meeting the single guy many times offers multiple tales of the wife-girlfriend-fuck buddy having an "issue" and couldn't come. We then changed our rules
the conditions of agreeing to the first meeting extensively. No promise of sex on first meeting. Must meet first time as a couple ONLY or no chance FOREVER for any future meeting. If guy shows up alone we will have only two words for him - 'good bye'
. All of those changes cut down the number of meeting scheduled a LOT. The good part is that it has totally eliminated the accompanying 3-some 'confrontations' that resulted before. Before this change we were getting a LOT of meeting requests from 'couples' and seeing VERY few true couples!
Yahoo groups - parties that never were
We've had several experiences with new Yahoo! groups
that were formed to have swinging parties. Many stated they had plans for how to ensure that only couples were admitted. Others stated that they enforced single male ratios in the group and the parties. Come time of the party we were met with a "Guy Fest" ie a large group of stroking shirt less guys with no women visibly present. We'll use letter names for the groups as most are either gone, dismally dead or not worth joining as the parties have no quotas on 'unknown' (no references) single males. Here's a sampling:
| ||Group A|
Group presented itself as a bi friendly voyeurs group. We show up at the Meet-N-Greet and there were several guys there, a single woman and the single male founder. There were two other couples that had RSVP'd but canceled at the last minute. We left as a gang scene wasn't for us. The next month's party we were told seven couples had confirmed to the group founder that they were coming. The Meet-N-Greet day arrives and it's mostly all guys with one other couple and two single ladies. Several of the single guys there then told all of their mate having some "issue" and they couldn't come. They asked the founder if he minded if they came along anyway. As it wasn't a couples only group he allowed it. We found the party to be very enjoyable. This group's later parties were even better as the group founder personally weeded out ALL of the fakers by voice verification.
| ||Group B|
Founder never mentions at all the existance of a partner. A short time after our invite into the group founder posts a notice about a Meet-N-Greet at a nearby food place on a Friday. No date was mentioned, just "Friday". He describes what he'll be wearing but no mention of what his wife/girlfriend/fuck buddie would be wearing. We didn't go as no one in the group responded they were going, even though it was only 20 minute away from us. Annoying in having to fill out questionnaires, read messages on the group site and waiting for some sort of momentum to happen. Group had a Meet-n-Greet that one person besides the Founder posted a after M-n-G report. We've never met or heard of either of them. Our Fake-O-Meter is hovering at 50% and rising for this one.
| ||Group C|
New group founded on Yahoo!. Founder never mentions at all the existance of a partner. Group founder talks of having parties for months without setting a date. All sorts of drama and secrecy ensued, WAY beyond the norm we've experienced in almost all other Yahoo! groups. Then more drama and several more weeks of delays in setting the party date. Then the founder moves the date of the NJ Meet-N-Greet to after the first party. One GIANT red flag for us. Finally the party invites were sent out. Early on not many people responded that we recognized, so, to us it seemed like yet again another "Guy Fest" in the making. By this time we'd had enough as we were meeting people elsewhere with MUCH less drama and fuss, so we responded no to the invite.
Just what were these issues and were we just being unfair or insensitive to these 'couples'? We always ask that if they are not going to show up as a couple to contact us BEFORE the meeting, AND NOT JUST SHOW UP ALONE. We feel it's just lack of common courtesy and will hold that against him. Maybe we've ticked off one or two couples by doing this, but to us swinging isn't our life, it's something we do when we have time! Overall the profound reduction of meetings with solo horny single guys was WELL worth it! We refuse to expand on what all of these issues were these single guys said their 'wife-girlfriend-fuck buddy' were having. We feel doing so would be giving free help to the next horny single guy hoping to make a couple meeting into a 3-some.
So are we "fixated" about solo single guys (partnerless) as one group founder once stated? Keep in mind he himself is a solo (partner less) single guy. There are some single guys that we would prefer to play with compared to some couples due to their exemplary behaviour. So no, we're just tired of the ones that choose to NOT respect OUR rules
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Last updated Saturday, December 8, 2007
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